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THE CASE FOR CONDITIONAL IMMORTALITY IN 28 MINUTES
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Published as: 37 Reasons Hell Isn't/Is Forever - Conditional Immortality Is
Biblical Not Eternal Conscious Torment
Video:        https://youtu.be/9fevXbKUKmE
Transcript:   https://ci-website-cobmojo.vercel.app/watch/
Site:         https://ci-website-cobmojo.vercel.app
Duration:     28:32 (1712 seconds)
Published:    March 6, 2025
Author:       Phil Welch

Author-supplied English caption track published with the video on YouTube,
retrieved with youtube-transcript-api and checked against the source document.
The cue times and wording are the published ones; only whitespace was
normalised.

Retrieved July 29, 2026.

Timestamps are the published caption cue times, not estimates. Chapter
headings were added for this edition by matching the narration to the numbered
sections of the written case.

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[0:00] Introduction: thirty years of the traditional view

For over 30 years of my Christian life, I was exclusively taught the
traditional view of Hell: Eternal Conscious Torment where the unsaved get
thrown into hell and suffer consciously forever. Two years ago, I surprisingly
discovered that the Bible actually teaches Conditional Immortality, or
Annihilation instead. Before we dive in, ask yourself: "will I change my view
if I find that the Bible teaches something different than what I'm currently
believing?"

Let's start by comparing the Eternal Conscious Torment view with the
Conditional Immortality view, which is absolutely not the unbiblical view that
many think when they hear the term Annihilation: that the unsaved painlessly
evaporate into non-existence upon death. The biblical view of

[0:47] What conditional immortality actually claims

Conditional Immortality is actually just like the traditional view, in that
upon death an unsaved sinner enters an intermediate state, is physically
resurrected for Judgment Day, and on Judgment Day experiences a conscious
punishment. Where they differ is that this punishment culminates in permanent
death. In other words, the person will not continue to exist forever; they are
permanently wiped out.

So their experience of hell is not forever, but the outcome of hell, their
destruction, is forever, it is permanent. The Annihilation view does not
diminish the urgency

[1:26] The urgency is unchanged

to flee from the wrath to come. Regardless of your view on hell, God does not
want you to go to hell. Jesus has made the Kingdom of Heaven available!

Repent from your sins and believe the good news that Jesus died to pay for all
of your sins so that you can spend eternity with him in Heaven.

[1:47] How the argument is laid out

In this video I will very quickly go through all the reasons I see why
Conditional Immortality is the biblical view of hell so that you can get an
idea of the breadth of the arguments. Then I will have individual videos that
go deeper into each of these eight topics. But first, there are three

[2:02] Roadblock 1: is this a new teaching?

philosophical roadblocks we must remove before we can even jump into the
biblical text. Number one: "Hasn't Eternal Conscious Torment always been the
traditional view? So, why should I even consider Conditional Immortality,
which is probably just some new idea anyway?"

Conditional Immortality was the majority view held by the early church fathers
until at least AD 300. Augustine made

[2:24] Roadblock 2: does the image of God make us immortal?

Eternal Conscious Torment the dominant view in the late 4th century. Number
two: "Isn't my soul eternal since I'm made in the image of God?" Well, God is
omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent; are you?

The immortality of the soul is actually taken from Plato, not the Bible, which
emphasizes our fleeting existence. God alone has immortality and Jesus gives
Believers immortal

[2:50] Roadblock 3: does infinite offence require infinite punishment?

souls and immortal bodies. Roadblock number three: "Doesn't sin against an
infinite God warrant infinite punishment?" No, actually the Bible says the
condition or understanding of the sinner, not the one sinned against, is what
determines the severity of the judgment.

One problem this infinite punishment creates for Eternal Conscious Torment is
that since it trickles out a finite magnitude of punishment over an infinite
time, God never actually administers the proper judgment for sin, at any given
point in time, since there is always still sin that has not been punished.
With Conditional Immortality, the fullness of God's judgment happens on
Judgment Day. Okay, so here

[3:35] The passages usually cited for eternal conscious torment

are the primary go-to passages used by proponents of Eternal Conscious
Torment. Some go as far as to say that these so firmly support the traditional
view, that all other scripture that seems to point to Annihilation must be
saying something else. A surface reading of these with a presupposition of
Eternal Conscious Torment may make you think "see, case closed," but get ready
to be shocked, because careful examination will reveal that the each of these
portions of scripture actually points

[4:05] Mark 9: undying worms and unquenchable fire

to Annihilation. Number one: undying worms and unquenchable fire. Jesus said
in Mark 9 it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than
with two eyes to be thrown into hell where worm does not die and the fire is
not quenched.

Well, Jesus is actually quoting the last verse of Isaiah where the King has
defeated his enemies and there are dead bodies, and the people go out and look
upon them, and it says "for their worm shall not die their fire shall not be
quenched and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." Now, Jesus was saying
that those thrown into hell would be completely destroyed: neither the worms
nor the fire will fail to finish their work of complete destruction of the
dead bodies. The word unquenchable is used to describe fire a few times in the
Old Testament, and it always implies complete destruction and never has the
connotation of always burning or never goes out (as the NLT or CEV translate
it).

Now, imagine if I told you that last year my house caught on fire and the
firefighters got there but it was unquenchable. You wouldn't ask me, "Hey,
well can we go see it? I want to go see your house still on fire."

You would understand that my house was burned to the ground. That the fire was
not still burning, but that it was completely burned down. Neither Isaiah nor
Jesus imply that these dead bodies will remain in the state of being eaten or
burning forever.

And, importantly, they're not actively experiencing suffering. Jesus never
adds suffering to this picture; it wasn't there in Isaiah, and it's not here
in Mark. A connected passage, Daniel 12:2, talks about a resurrection to shame
and everlasting contempt.

Now, the word "shame" is probably better understood in our modern usage as
"reproach", see Psalm 69, and the root word for "contempt" used only one other
time in scripture we just saw back in Isaiah 66, when talking about dead
bodies. These are emotions felt towards something, not by something. They are
about the dead bodies. The unrighteous do not need to be conscious for these
emotions to be everlasting, because the

[6:18] Revelation 14: the smoke of their torment

unrighteous are not the ones experiencing them. Number two: the torment of the
worshippers of the beast in Revelation 14. Whoever worships the Beast and
receives the mark will "be tormented with fire and suffer in the presence of
the Holy Angels and in the presence of the lamb and the smoke of their torment
goes up forever and ever."

First of all, we must note that this only applies to the worshippers of the
Beast who received the mark, so it is not the fate of all unrighteous. Second,
when Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath, He died. So, how would they not die?

Third, when fire and sulfur is mentioned in the Bible it denotes complete
destruction. Also, the angels are present for this torment, so therefore they
would miss out on Heaven because they're stuck there forever and ever. And,
possibly most importantly, it says the smoke of their torment is what rises
forever and ever.

We see two other places, Isaiah 34 and Revelation 19, that both talk about
smoke going up forever and ever and it's always a complete destruction
followed by smoke going up forever and ever as a sign of complete and
permanent destruction not ongoing burning. One other contested portion of this
passage is when it says "and they have no rest day or night," which can sound
like they are forever unable to rest because they are in torment. What's very
interesting is the parallel between these evil worshippers and the four living
creatures worshiping around the throne in Revelation 4:8.

The same exact seven-word phrase is used with one word location swapped. It
seems like it could be referring to one of three things: A) their worship of
the Beast before their judgment, B) their condition during their finite
judgment, or C) the smoke is what doesn't stop rising (eternal incense). My
guess, because of the parallel to Revelation 4:8 and the sentence structure,
is C) and the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and does not
cease day or night, but all three Alternatives work just fine with them having

[8:24] Revelation 20: the lake of fire and the second death

a limited duration judgment. All right, number three, the lake of fire in
Revelation 20:10-15. The devil and the Beast and the false prophet are thrown
into the Lake of Fire and they will be "tormented day and night forever and
ever."

Four verses later: "Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire.
This is the second death, the Lake of Fire And if anyone's name was not found
written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire." The
argument Eternal Conscious Torment makes is that if the unrighteous are also
thrown into the Lake of Fire, they share the same fate of eternal torment.

First, let's acknowledge that "tormented day and night forever and ever" had
to be added in verse 10 because, otherwise, the reader would assume that
everything thrown into this Lake of Fire would be burned up completely and
destroyed. Second, where it is placed in the text is important. Grammatically,
it specifically applies to only Satan the Beast and the false prophet.

The Lake of Fire has a special design for them as it was prepared specifically
for them. Resuming in verse 14, we see "this is the second death" to make
clear the different outcome of the Lake of Fire was going to have on death
Hades and those not in the Book of Life. Revelation 21:4 makes it clear that
death gets destroyed in the Lake of Fire, thus those that

[9:46] What eternal punishment means

are thrown in after death are also completely destroyed in the fire. Number
four: Eternal Punishment and Eternal Destruction as in Matthew 25 and 2
Thessalonians 1. "Eternal" here is much better thought of as "permanent",
because all the other times you read it in the New Testament you use the
concept of permanence, not actively happening.

Consider "Eternal Salvation". You don't think, "oh, for eternity Jesus has to
keep continually saving me again and again and again." No, it's a permanent
salvation; it happened once and the result stands forever.

We have a permanent Redemption; a permanent inheritance. We don't keep
inheriting forever. There is a permanent judgment; God does not spend eternity
always judging people's deeds, He judges once and the outcome is permanent.

Committing an "Eternal Sin" doesn't mean that one continually keeps doing that
sin forever; it means that sin has permanent and eternal consequences. The
same with the Eternal Punishment: the punishment happens once but the result
stands forever. Eternal Destruction: they are destroyed once and stay
destroyed forever.

Now, punishment and destruction in the Greek in both cases are nouns, not
verbs. This is not an ongoing active thing; it's a thing that happens once and
it's done. So, Matthew 25 is saying and these will receive a punishment that
is permanent.

[11:15] The rich man and Lazarus

Second Thessalonians 1 elaborates on what that punishment is: permanent
destruction. Number five: The Rich Man and Lazarus. The Rich Man dies and goes
to Hades and he's in torment and he says "I'm in anguish in this flame."

He asked Abraham to send someone to his father's house because he has five
brothers still alive so they don't come there. Now, the Rich Man cannot be in
the Lake of Fire suffering Eternal Conscious Torment because his five brothers
are actually still alive. He is in the intermediate state. On top of that, it
makes no sense that the Lake of Fire would be the exact same thing that he's
already suffering in Hades because we see that Hades

[11:55] Weeping, gnashing of teeth and outer darkness

also gets destroyed in the Lake of Fire. Number six: weeping and gnashing of
of teeth and outer darkness. Luke 13 and others speak of weeping and gnashing
of teeth.

Second Peter 2 and others talk about blackest darkness or outer darkness. Now,
these occur before and during the last judgment. Matthew 13 says that they get
thrown in the fiery furnace in that place will be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.

Now, yet weeping and gnashing of teeth also occurs in three discussions
without a fiery furnace. It isn't from the furnace. There will be weeping and
gnashing of teeth at the Judgment scene itself.

Gnashing of teeth in the Bible refers to anger not agony, and weeping is
crying from sorrow not from pain. So, these people are not in pain, they're
angry and they're sad. In Matthew 22, the man without wedding clothes is cast
into the outer darkness.

"In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." It would be odd
if this signifies that he gets Eternal Conscious Torment whereas the other
rejecters earlier in the story are destroyed and their city is burned. Even if
weeping and gnashing of teeth happens in the Lake of Fire, it doesn't mean
that it continues on forever and ever; and darkness, as we see in Jude and
second Peter, is where the unrighteous are held until the Judgment Day, not
for eternity. So these passages, presumed to be a slam dunk for Eternal
Conscious Torment, are actually all supporting the annihilation view;

[13:25] The language of the fate of the wicked

some quite strongly. Number 7-12: the language of the fate of the wicked. The
punishment for sin is death, not torment; found in dozens of verses throughout
the Bible.

Number eight: the wicked will be destroyed not kept alive and tortured. Number
nine: the punishment doesn't happen immediately after the fall, but it was
delayed so that God can bring in his Plan of Redemption. So, the wicked are
sustained, but only until Judgment Day.

Number 10, Jesus says the fate of the soul and the body in hell are one and
the same. Just as someone can kill a body or make it stop living, God can
destroy the body and soul in hell. So, both body and soul will be destroyed in
hell.

Number 11: the contrast to eternal life as we read it in the Bible. Perish,
death, pass away, does not have life, wrath and fury, judgment, depart from
me, destruction, eternal punishment. None of these contrasts have any
implication of torment, except how the traditional view is incorrectly
translating eternal punishment.

They all imply that if you don't have eternal life you're a goner. And Number
12, all the verses that plainly speak of the eternal torment of wicked humans
**cricket sounds** There are none of them, compared to the scores of verses
that we have that

[14:50] What fire does in Scripture

support Annihilation. Number 13: fire burns up. We see Jesus using analogies
about weeds being burned.

What happens when weeds get thrown into a fire? They burn up into ashes; they
don't suffer. Burning in the Bible is pretty much always talking about
destroying things; it's not "I burned my hand on the pan, and it was painful,
I need some burn cream," it's talking about destruction. Burning things only
survive if the Lord preserves them: the burning bush, Shadrach, Meshach, and
Abednego in the fiery furnace, the rich man in the intermediate state; they
only survive if

[15:27] Sodom and Gomorrah as the example

the Lord sustains them. Number 14: Sodom and Gomorrah is the example. "If by
turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to
extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly."

They undergo "eternal fire", they're turned to ash, completely wiped out,
never rebuilt, and there's never a single mention in either the original
account or the recaps about the people suffering. If Sodom and Gomorrah is the
example, then Eternal Conscious Torment makes no sense at all. Where are the
depictions of the people in torment? Why is the "eternal fire" finished the
next day and all Abraham sees is the smoke rising signifying

[16:11] Patterns of judgment in the Old Testament

complete destruction? Number 15: physical judgment in the Old Testament. God's
judgments are always about wiping things out, not torturing them.

He tells the Israelites to wipe out nations; He never says go and torture
them. He says leave none alive. The penalty in the law for the most serious
crimes was death, not torture. And the only time physical torment is used in
the Old

[16:34] What the sacrificial system says about the penalty

Testament is in the Book of Job, and that was done by Satan not by God. Number
16: the sacrificial system shows the just penalty for sin. Animals were
killed, not tortured, because of sin. The

[16:48] What Jesus’ death says about the penalty for sin

shedding of blood was what made the atonement. Number 17: speaking of
atonement, Jesus died for our sins he didn't suffer eternal torment for us. If
it were his suffering that paid our debt, then his death would be unnecessary
and confusing.

Abraham was to kill Isaac, not to torture him. This foreshadowed Christ.
Christ's death paints a picture of the fate of the wicked: a trial, abandoned
by the world and friends, conviction, physical suffering, spiritual suffering,
and then

[17:22] Physical death as a picture of final death

death, all on the same day. Number 18: physical death parallels what will
happen spiritually. We know what happens when the body dies: there's no more
life in it, it's no longer functional and it turns back to dust.

The Lake of Fire is the second death; it's the spiritual death that means the
soul is no longer functional, the spirit is no longer functional, turns back
to nothing. Number

[17:48] Hell is not the opposite of heaven

19: hell is not the opposite of Heaven. Romans 5 says the gift of eternal life
cannot be compared with the condemnation and death brought by sin. Eternal
life is far, far greater; it is not the opposite of hell.

In Matthew 7, Jesus says that more people go to hell than to heaven, so if
Eternal Conscious Torment is the opposite of heaven, and we have more people
going there, then the net outcome of humanity is negative. Whereas, with
conditional immortality, hell is a finite negative, so that makes much more
sense because then humanity as a whole would have a net positive

[18:25] Why no place is prepared for the unrighteous

outcome. Number 20: the unrighteous have no place prepared for them. Matthew
25: "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed
by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the
world. ...

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these
will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
The righteous have a place prepared for them for eternity: Heaven.

The devil and his angels have a place prepared for them for eternity: the Lake
of Fire. The unrighteous have no place that was prepared for them for
eternity. Why? Because they're not going to live for eternity; they're going
to the lake of fire, where

[19:13] The tree of life and conditional life

they will perish but the devil and his angels will last for eternity. 21 Adam
and Eve were forbidden from eating from the Tree of Life again after the fall
and they eventually died. Revelation 22 says in heaven we will eat from the
Tree of Life to sustain our physical bodies.

The unrighteous will not have access to it because they can't get into the
city, therefore they cannot live forever.

[19:37] The biblical case for conditional immortality

Number 22: Conditional Immortality. Scripture assumes the mortality of man,
but Plato's immortal soul concepts got brought into Christian thinking. God
alone is immortal, but the Holy Spirit makes us spiritually immortal upon
conversion, as we see in First Peter 1, and then Jesus will grant us physical
immortality at his second coming, 1 Corinthians 15. But only his followers get

[20:03] The day of judgment

immortality, not the unrighteous. 23: the day of judgment appears to be a
single one-time event in scripture when judgment is determined and then the
punishment of destruction is administered. With Annihilation, full justice is
administered immediately, which results in the most glory for God and also
justice for those who had been sinned against.

But with Eternal Conscious Torment, punishment trickles in throughout
eternity. You have to spread it out real thin, but it's still coming in, still
coming in, still coming in. 10,000 years into heaven it's still coming in, but
that means there are sins that are not yet fully punished.

God wouldn't be fully glorified for completely judging sin, ever! Just think:
on day one of Heaven asking God, "God how much of the necessary punishment for
sin has been doled out so far?" And God says, "Oh, about 0.00001%,

[21:00] No more death, mourning, crying or pain

but just wait." That makes no sense at all! Number 24: Revelation 21:4 "and
death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain
anymore for the former things have passed away." These have passed away,
they're not just relegated to some part of the new heavens and new

[21:18] How “all in all” fits after final judgment

earth where the Lake of Fire is. They're gone. Number 25: Universalist
phrasing kind of makes sense once the wicked are eliminated.

"To unite all things in him" Ephesians 1. 1 Corinthians 15 "that God may be
all in all." Doesn't make as much sense if there's a massive group of
unrighteous somewhere in existence, but if there's nothing else that's
unrighteous anymore,

[21:44] Why suffering does not pay for sin

"all" makes sense. 26: suffering does not pay for sins. Death is the
punishment for sins.

The Bible says that many times. Even if suffering does accompany that death,
it's the death that is the

[21:58] “Better for him if he had not been born”

ultimate punishment. Suffering never pays away the debt. Number 27: Matthew 26
"it would have been better for that man if he had not been born."

Jesus makes this statement about Judas. First off, this actually has really
strong implications of universalism being false because if he ends up in
heaven eventually it wouldn't be better for him not to have been born.
Secondly, if Eternal Conscious Torment were true, then it's better for every
single person that's not going to heaven to not have been born, so why would
Jesus even make this statement?

It seems like it could imply that there are some unrighteous where it is not
worse for them to have been born. On to some

[22:41] Are the wicked still present after Revelation 20?

objections. Number 28: "Aren't the wicked still around after Revelation
20:15?" No, the mentions in chapter 21 and 22 are actually just recapping the
fate of the present ungodly.

The unrighteous cannot inhabit the new Heaven and new earth, since that's
where righteousness dwells. And,

[23:01] Would this view weaken evangelism?

in my opinion, the holy city does not have a lake of fire view. 29: Wouldn't
the Conditional Immortality view cause people to be lax about sharing the
gospel?" Hey, we should be telling people about Jesus because Jesus is
amazing, not because the alternative is really bad.

We don't need to spice up hell to be extra bad to encourage people to follow
Jesus. Imagine a man in a boat, and his boat is sinking, and he's going to
die. You come up in this boat and say, "Hey your boat's sinking, get into this
boat or you'll drown ... and oh, by the way, there's also eternal sharks in
the water and they're going to eat you and it's going to be horrible and it's
going to be really, really, really horrible, so you should get in this boat."

No, no, no. You come up in your cruise ship and say, "Your boat is sinking,
and you're going to drown. This boat has come to save you, hop aboard and let
me tell you about it."

That person is not going to think twice about the quality of their boat or
what's in the water. They're going to say, "Let me get on to that cruise ship.
How do

[24:05] Is annihilation really punishment?

I get on to that cruise ship?" Number 30: is the Conditional Immortality view
even punishment if the wicked just cease to exist?" The last judgment is
consciously experienced and is severe and is to be avoided at all costs.

The way we treat animals means we know that even if something eventually will
not exist it doesn't mean that pain doesn't matter. Removal from the presence
of the Lord

[24:29] Would God destroy his image-bearers?

and from eternal life is the ultimate punishment. Number 31: God wouldn't
completely destroy a human being, the crowning jewel of His creation, would
He? Well, Hank Hanegraff, the Bible Answer Man,

[24:41] Why might Satan and his angels have a different fate?

says God wouldn't. Scripture says God will. Number 32: "Why should Satan and
his angels be subjected to a different punishment than humans?"

They were created as immortal spiritual beings outside of time. Man has always
been considered to be mortal; we are very different than them

[25:00] What about near-death experiences?

and they had a perfectly clear view of God when they chose to reject him.
Number 33: "What about near-death experiences that depict hell?" We always
reject any experience or vision or prophecy that contradicts scripture.

Most near-death experiences are about heaven and most of those contradict
scripture because they suggest pretty much everyone makes it to heaven, or
that you don't need Jesus, or it's not who you think would have made it. Jesus
says it's a narrow road and few find it so if we're going to reject those
Heaven near-death experiences,

[25:35] Did Jesus speak more about hell than heaven?

then we better reject hell ones if they contradict scripture. Number 34:
"Didn't Jesus preach more about hell than Heaven?" No, there's at least three
times as many verses about heaven and

[25:46] Why this question matters

the kingdom of God than there are about hell. And the last section: seven
reasons this matters. One: truth matters.

We don't want to say things are true when they're not. Second, if God has
revealed something then there is value in knowing it to the extent he has made
it knowable. Third, the nature of the punishment of the unrighteous reveals to
us some aspects about the character of God and the nature of our sin.

Fourth, the false anticipation of loved ones experiencing Eternal Conscious
Torment is unnecessary stress and suffering if Conditional Immortality is
true. Fifth, it takes our focus off of Heaven. We won't want to think about
heaven a lot if it makes us think about Eternal Conscious Torment hell.

Sixth, for many, Eternal Conscious Torment doesn't work with a loving God.
Many unbelievers say, "How could a loving God send people to everlasting
hell?" If that view is false, and is a barrier to the gospel, then we
shouldn't be promoting it.

Push back against Eternal Conscious Torment also seems to result in bad
doctrine: universalism, postmortem conversion, a strong resistance to even
talking about predestination. And finally, number seven. This one is really
interesting and is a bit counterintuitive, but stick with me.

Eternal Conscious Torment makes people assume that they're going to go to
Heaven by default, and thus they don't put much effort into pursuing eternal
life. This false assumption has two parts to it. First, the average person
doesn't actually think Heaven will be that great.

Second, the traditional view of hell is made out to be so, so, so, so, so, so,
so bad that surely only the vilest of the worst humans will end up there.
Naturally, they think that they're not so bad, so by default they'll end up
going to Heaven. That's completely backwards!

Heaven is like winning the lottery, and when people buy a lottery ticket they
don't assume they're going to win. To help them realize they need to pursue
eternal life, we need to both elevate their view of Heaven but also provide
the biblical view of hell that doesn't overexaggerate it. And that's the quick
summary of all the reasons I see the Bible teaches Conditional Immortality not
Eternal Conscious

[28:08] Closing and further resources

Torment. I know it was really fast, so each of those eight sections has its
own detailed video linked in the description below so you can further digest
the ideas. I'd love to hear your comments on evidence for either view that I
didn't cover.

For more information on Conditional Immortality go to rethinking hell.com or
google "Preston Sprinkle Conditional Immortality". Thanks for watching!

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